Mandos

[Finarfin]

I'm a bit confused about what happens when the elves die and go to Mandos. I've read that they're 're-embodied' but can they leave Mandos travel round Aman? Like I remember reading somewhere that the Glorfindel who brings Frodo to Rivendell is the same one who died in battle with a balrog. So once they're 're-embodied' in Mandos can they leave? But if they can why don't they just return to Middle-Earth? Afterall you can't keep a good elf down. I'm basing this all on the Glorfindel incident and also in the Lay of Beren and Luthien in the the passage where they bury Finrod it says and I quote, 'But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.'This being the case why doesn't Feanor simply get up of his 're-embodied' ass and keep returning to Middle-Earth until he succeeds in winning back what is his? Try saying all that with only one breath!

[X Rogue]

It seems, by looking thru the references, that Glorfindel is the only reincarnated Elf who ever came back to Middle Earth after dying there and going to the Halls of Mandos. This seems as if it was a special privilege granted to Glorfindel, since Finrod and Finarfin both also died in Middle Earth, were reanimated, but only returned to the part of Aman in which they had previously live, not to Middle Earth. Makes me wonder if nobody but Glorfindel ever asked to come back, or if others asked, but were not allowed to reuturn to Middle Earth.

Also, Feanor has not left the Halls of Mandos, according to the Silmarillion; 'Then Feanor died, but he had neither burial or tomb, for so fiery was his spirit that as it sped, his body fell away to ash, and was borne away like smoke; and never again has his likeness appeared in Arda, neither has his spirit left the Halls of Mandos'.

Seems that Elves who die spend some time in Mandos for quiet contemplation; Feanor was the greatest of the Eldalie, but by him came their greatest defeats as well as their greatest works. Therefore Mandos has not released him, whereas Elves like Fingolfin, Fingon and Glorfindel, having died in the service of their people and their given word, have been released and reincarnated. Feanor died in the service of his blasphemous oath, and of his own grief, bitterness and rashness, having abandoned a part of his people to death in the Grinding Ice and on the shore, and yet more Elves to death fighting Morgoth and his minions.

[~Steadfast Sam]

I always viewed the Halls of Mandos as the Middle Earth version of Purgatory. According to the Catholic faith, an evil person spends a long long time to Purgatory but a good person leaves rather quickly. Tolkien was Catholic, remember, so it would make sense for him to carry over inadvertently some of his own beliefs. If that was the case, Feanor won't be leaving the Halls of Mandos for a very long time.

Elvish reincarnation is a tricky subject; one Tolkien could never quite work out. It basically comes down to being a very special gift to a select few that did a great deed, in the same way as Tuor being numbered with the Eldar. It always made me happy after Finrod dies so sadly to hear of him walking with his father.

Glorfindel is just cool.

[Finarfin]

Finarfin didn't return to ME. Did he die? I thought he stayed in Aman with those that refused to go. I'm confused. So Mandos is purgatory and all the good Elves get time off for good behaviour and the bad Elves stay their until after the final battle and the world is destroyed or they're given the option of going North and building toys('cause the Noldor were good at building stuff) for a certain fat man with a beard.

So what about the Sindar? They go to Mandos too so soon or later, despite the fact that they refused the summons, they're going to end up in the Aman (albeitly in the Halls of Mandos).

Sure sucks to be them.

[X Rogue]

Finarfin stayed in Aman, and became High King of the Noldor who stayed and did not go into exile with Feanor. Finarfin did not die, he just never went to ME with the rest of the Noldor from Aman, therefore Finarfin would not be in Mandos.

All the Sindar would not end up in Mandos, just those who died in ME. The Summons was left open to them, so of those who didn't die, some stayed in ME and diminished, the rest, like Legolas, went to Aman from the Havens or other ME ports.

Besides, they would be released from Mandos on the same basis as the rest of the Elves. Tho I don't think it makes such a difference if the Elf had 'misbehaved' in life, as it does whether they repented after arriving in Mandos, or if they died in good circumstances, such as Glorfindel giving his life to cover the retreat of the refugees from Gondolin. I got the impression that he was expedited out of Mandos and allowed to return to ME to serve Elrond in Rivendell because of this loyalty and courage, in spite of Glorfy being a Noldorin in exile from Aman and thus technically if not personally in rebellion against the Valar.

[~Steadfast Sam]

I don't remember the Silmarillion or UT mentioning Glorfindel before the Fall of Gondolin... I always assumed he was born there. In which case he may not have played a part in the Rebellion.

I thought it was mentioned (in LoTR or otherwise) that one of the reasons Glorfindel was so tough was because he had seen the light of the two trees. Also he was golden-haired which hints at a Vanyar origin...

[~Steadfast Sam]

Hey you are right Randalf! I must've had a brain freeze for a second there.