Terrorists strike London

[Steadfast Sam]

BBC Article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659093.stm)

At least four explosive devices were detonated in London's mass transportation systems today, leaving upwards of a hundred wounded and a yet unknown number dead. To all our british friends, I am praying for your safety and the safety of your loved ones.

[Theodred]

I'm hoping everyone over there is all right...

[Ditz]

At leasy 37 dead. Around 700 injured. It could have been a LOT worse, we got off really lightly.

[silverfox]

Yeah, I know. And the timeing aswell, I left for sailing at 9am and it was all celebrations and then when I got back at 4:30pm it was all about shock, horror and grief.

[siskoeva]

man...this whole thing is just heinous. I know it's been awhile since all the IRA attacks and such, but it seems within the past 30 years, Britain has really been pounded. 700 civ's injured...My thoughts are with the Brits today. I'm glad to hear about the Olympics...I'm sad to hear about the bombing. Britain is stronger today, like a broken bone when it heals up. just a bunch of pansy's, the ones who commited the crime.

[Prince Dol Amroth]

Once again, Britian is forced to face man's inhumanity against man. I am confident that as she has always doen in the past, she will survive and overcome. I send my prayers and thoughts to all our British friends.

[Ditz]

I don't think we've been that battered and bruised really. We've got off a lot more lightly than a lot of countries, and we don't tend to have major death tolls. And as PDA said, we will prevail.

My aunt's friend died at King's Cross. However that's the closest it's come to me so perhaps I'm being a little bit detatched or something.

[silverfox]

Trust me, your not. My Dad's English but if I hadn't been to london I doubt I would have really noticed.

[Ditz]

I dunno. I feel sad that people have died, but there have been rumours something like this was likely to happen so it's not a surprise. And life goes on. less than 40 people were killed. Which is pretty amazing.

[silverfox]

Yeh, I know. What I don't get is why?

[Lothíriel]

It was funny watching the news about the bombings this morning because one of the times when before I hit the snooze (my alarm is set to NPR) I heard a bit of the story about it and incorporated it into my dream.
My heart goes out to those in London.

[Calandriel Aurealin]

Yeah, I heard about this travesty... On the day of the summit of the world leaders in Scotland, and everything. Wasn't it Al Qaeda? That's what I heard, at least.

[Ditz]

Wasn't it Al Qaeda?

They haven't confirmed who it is. They don't know. A lot of self confessions are fake. Don't be too swayed by the media, and internet rumours. I personally am keeping an open mind. I almost hope it is Al Qaeda because then it won't be someone else, someone previously unaccounted for. I'd rather think there aren't loads and loads of organisations trying to blow the country up.

EDIT: And the police have asked people to stop speculating since it's not making anything better, and it's actually hindering a lot of the services, and the getting back to normality.

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

Wow, that was unexpected wasnt it? The world stopped for my trip for a short time- a lot of my friends, my dad, my friends parents work in london. That had us all really worried. Traffic today was horrendus too, no one using public transport so the m25 was hell and I'm hoping they're gonna reopen our trainline, they say they will...

I too pray for all those injured, it was awful, i cant believe it finally came. Everyone says we've had it coming though. I guess it was all a matter of time...

HEY WE GOT THE OLYMPIC BID THOUGH! go us.

[Arathorn III]

Yes, I heard about this long after it happened due to some stupid circumstances. :( I don't know what to say about it...it's just horrible. :( I'm glad everyone I know there is alright and I pray for everyone involved.

[Calandriel Aurealin]

It really is an awful thing. There are some screwed-up minds in this world just looking to cause trouble. When it happened in America, we launched a full-on war. I'd like to know how Britain is going to react to this blatant attack.

[X Rogue]

It's unfortunate all round. My thoughts are with all involved. Very sad news.

[Ditz]

I'd like to know how Britain is going to react to this blatant attack.


First of all we're going to wait until we know for certain who did it. Then we will formulate a plan to ensure they can't do it again, or to anyone else. We're not going to do anything rash. (I hope)

[Tarcristiel]

My prayers go out to all those affected by this criminal act. It's scary how there really is no safe place in the world.


”Had I a host of Elves in armour of the Elder Days, it would avail little, save to arouse the power of Mordor.”

[shadowfax05]

Yesterday it was announced that 52 people have died and they are still looking for any survivors. It was a horrible thing to happen, but i'm glad everyone i know is safe!

[minah]

It was a horrible thing, to say the least! I wish there was something to do! :(
The death toll however will increase at least by one more! A good friend of mine went for vacation in London! The first thing I did after I heard the news was to call him and to sent him sms, to see if he was alright! Actually I have sent him 8 sms the following 24 h! I was really worried! Guess how many times he replied untill today! NONE! Luckily I found out from his sister that he was alright and that he was on a trip!
When he'll return in Crete I swear that I'll cut his throat! :guns (at least that! :angry )

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

A lot of phone networks went down, it might not have been his fault.

[Ditz]

Wow. The police in the UK are AMAZING. It's not even been a week yet and they know a lot about it. Suicide bombers, which is why a fair amount of people died. They've conducted a series of raids and found explosives. All four of the main suspects appear to be British born citizens and they have the identities of three of them.

[Baseloaf]

That´s pretty impressive. Our police is one of the biggest jokes in the world.

[Tarcristiel]

This is a personal bugaboo. Don't call them suicide bombers. Their main purpose was to kill and maim as many as they could, not commit suicide. Let's call them what they really are - homicide bombers.

It's good that the police have an idea as to who committed these horrific acts. Now let's hope they can find those who planned and financed them.


The Company took little gear of war, for their hope was in secrecy not in battle.

[Ditz]

homicide bombers suggests that they did not intend on killing themselves, wheras most suicide bombers actually appear to go in thinking "this way I'll get into heaven" rather than "lets kill people".

[Aragil]

I really, really don't understand that way of thinking. If it were to die on the field of battle in a glorious manner, sure, you will be honoured. But to blow yourself up with a bunch of innocent people? I don't consider that honourable.

[Ditz]

If it were to die on the field of battle in a glorious manner, sure, you will be honoured. But to blow yourself up with a bunch of innocent people? I don't consider that honourable.

Aren't soldiers murdering the other side? Often people have been forced into things through conscription etc, are they not innocent? Aren't civilians killed in war as well? Why is war not classed as murder in your eyes? I think it's horrible to want to kill anyone, even if it is in a war. I'd never consider myself as dying honourably with the blood of people on my hands. And in the eyes of the suicide bombers the innocent people aren't innocent because they haven't pulled troops from Iraq, they haven't helped the cause. Also they'd see it the way we tend to see the deaths of civilians a necessary evil to get rid of the abomination on the other side. Terrorism is just like war and dying for one is just as honourable as dying for the other in my opinion. What was that quote Balin sent me?

Ah yes:

All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
- Voltaire

[Aragil]

No, I am refering to real war. Not the stupid excuse for war we have now. Real war, where it is a test of your skills with a weapon, not how many bombs your country has. Real war in my definition cannot exist in the present day, because guns have stolen the honour from battle. A crazed terrorist suicide bombing and killing fourty people is definately not the same as a person who is standing up for what he believes in, and fights in an army, against other soldiers.

[Ditz]

Real war still kills people. I can't see anyone being allowed to die honourably after killing people. Dying honourably after living a good life, perfect. Dying honourably after bravely facing a disease, again I can understand.

[Prince Dol Amroth]

"What a cruel thing is war: to separate and destroy families and friends, and mar the purest joys and happiness God has granted us in this world; to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors, and to devastate the fair face of this beautiful world."
--Robert E. Lee (1807-1870), U.S. general.

It is well that war is so terrible; else we would grow too fond of it.
--Robert E. Lee (1807-1870), U.S. general. Said to another general during the battle of Fredericksburg (1862).

War, in its reality is not honorable, or laudable, but a sometimes necessary evil. We can honor those who chose to offer their lives in the defense of their country, but we must always remember the true face of war.

There is a difference between warfare as we have come to know it and what we call terrorism. While the innocenet who dies because of an errant air strike might disagree with the end result, in most wars innocents are not targetted. Terrorism, by its very nature must target innocents and non-combatants to achieve its goal- terroizing citizens into forcing thier governments to obey the demands of the terrorists.

[Arathorn III]

Today is one week after the bombing. I think a moment of silence will be observed throughout the UK.

[Ditz]

There is a difference between warfare as we have come to know it and what we call terrorism.

The difference isn't that big really. I mean look at the second world war, blitz bombing, gass scares, propoganda. Terrorism is the same thing with a new name.

Yes, we had a two minute silence at 12. Even the kids in the reception (four and five years old) sat still and didn't fidget at all.

[Arathorn III]

Yes, we had a two minute silence at 12. Even the kids in the reception (four and five years old) sat still and didn't fidget at all.
That's impressive. :eek

I hear everyone and everything stopped...even the airport. And everyone came out from their houses...

[Baseloaf]

Good quotes there, PDA. Gotta love old Bob. :)

[Prince Dol Amroth]

I applaud the English law enforcement folks. I trust the judicial system there will be as thorough.

Ditz, I guess for me the difference is best illustrated thus: A person is run over by a car as he is crossing the street.

Terrorism would be : the person is run over because the driver was trying to run him over, trying to hurt and kill.

War would be: the person is run over because the driver was momentarily distracted or did not see the person.

In both cases the person is run over,abd they really could care less why, they just would have preferred not getting run over.

There are always abuses in war. Whenever man resorts to violence, terrible things happen. The main difference is that on the whole war does not try to kill civilians and terrorism almost always tries to kill civilians and almost always avoids the military or law enforcement.

[Arathorn III]

The person being run over in both cases is of course representing a civilian, just to clarify. :)

[Prince Dol Amroth]

Thank you, kind sir... :)c

[Ditz]

Thanks for implying I'm stupid Bere. even I understand allegory, although thank you very much for explaining it, I'll get in contact if I ever need someone to explain what difficult ideas or words might mean.

my point, dear PDA - which you obviously didn't pay attention to at all - was that often in the past our warfare has specifically targetted civillians. Look at the second world war. Air-raids were to kill civillians, only rarly were they actually specifically targetted at military or other large organisations (mainly because they couldn't see them). Look at Cromwell's attack on Ireland. Look at all sorts of things. Civilians are (or at least used to be) directly targetted in warfare fairly often. Don't even let me get started on the atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were targetted for mass civilian casualties. I understand why, so don't even try and lecture me as if I know nothing about world history, they were still targetted to cull civilians.

[Prince Dol Amroth]

ok, I a not sure what all the deleted messages were about, and I a not a fan of deleting messages.

Ditz, I detected a hint of frustration in your posts. I am not sure why, but if I offended , my apologies. I did get your point. Yes, sometimes in war, civilians are targetted, although it is not nor has it been standard practice. My only point was that terroists almost only target civilians. It is very seldom that military targets are chosen for attacks by terrorists.

as to the air raids in WW2, while civilians were targetted, it was largely because they were involved in the manufacturing of the weapons of war. In most air campaings and bombing, military, manufacturing of military items and strategic infrastructure is and has been targetted.

We need not go further with this debate, as I see your point, and just disagree as to intent. I do not condone any actions taken during war that harms innocents, but I believe that there is a distinct difference between terroism and general warfare. I abhor both. We will have to agree to disagree on this.

[Ditz]

as to the air raids in WW2, while civilians were targetted, it was largely because they were involved in the manufacturing of the weapons of war. In most air campaings and bombing, military, manufacturing of military items and strategic infrastructure is and has been targetted.

That's a load of rubbish. My dad grew up in the RAF just after the second world war was over. A lot of the stuff that the military release to the public is just wrong. The air bombers were told directly by their generals to specifically direct big cities for "mass panic".

I do see there is a difference between terrorism and Warfare. I never said I didn't, just that the difference wasn't as huge as people were making out. If you read up you'll see most people were basically saying "we would never hurt civillians on purpose." as if that seperated warfare from terrorism totally. And quite often terrorists to attack military or government organisations, but you must keep in mind that the security is so high around these places that it hardly ever gets even close. The military don't like to release information on security breaches, or attempted security breaches. It's bad form.

[Prince Dol Amroth]

Ditz, forgive my "rubbish" I must either have missed part of the history or been duped by the vicotrs version of history. I do not mean to imply that in war civilians are never targetted or that terrorists do not ever target military targets. My only point was that as a whole the m,ilitary in war does not target civilians and terrorists on the whole target civilians. Since we seem to agree we can move on.

[Ditz]

It's not your fault that it's rubbish, it's beause the military is very careful about what's released and how it's phrased.

[Steadfast Sam]

This morning London had more explosions in the subway system...no reports of casualties yet, but keep our british friends and their families in your thoughts.

[Arathorn III]

That must be scary for the people there, to have it happen again - but SOMEHOW, I don't know how yet, but amazingly four bombs either didn't work or failed to injure more than one person, which is a miracle. :)

[Ditz]

Plus it happened at 12:35, by 5pm they'd arrested two people in connection to it. go our police service.

[X Rogue]

Props to your law enforcement!