Taking a leave

[Poguemahone]

I dont know why, just not going to post here for however long I want. Might come and watch, but no post. It seems as if everything that I do as a mod trying to help doesnt work. The hierarchy is against me. I have the idea in my head that Barahir and Theo dont want me to be a mod, the only thing that is keeping me there is Bere.

And with this, goodbye.

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

God balin, please dont leave, please Balin.

[Barahir]

Um...?

[Theodred]

Oh Balin, you know I didn't restore those posts to spite you or write off your authority. It just seemed that Dom wanted them, and so I restored them. I didn't know it would make you mad. Don't go leaving now.

[silverfox]

Please don't go Balin.

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

Okay... guys... please. Can we just apologise to each other? Please?

Okay, people of rohan. I have come to a conclusion: GUYS ARE DAMN SUBBORN. Seriously. And male dwarves are worse.

I think there's been some serious misunderstanding here, with a hard background. Can you start from the begining? Refresh? I know i got off on the wrong foot with some people, but we started again, and no one seemed to remember. Maybe we can do that?

[silverfox]

Before it gets worse, Please.

Boys are stubborn as well as subborn

[Lothíriel]

I love having you around here Balin...please don't leave...

[Ditz]

:( *hugs* Don't worry dear, I know the feeling. I've had it a lot at the board I mod at. Don't let other people let you down.

[Tarcristiel]

Balin, we'll miss ya! Please come back :D


”But always I have let my horn cry at setting forth, and though thereafter we may walk in the shadows, I will not go forth as a thief in the night.”

[X Rogue]

Oh no! :( Balin, please come back!

[Schloi]

come on man, life can get dark, but there is always light somewhere
please come back

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

Balin. Please. The DOM need you. We have hugs....

[Ditz]

I understand totally how it feels, it's not nice to be undermined as a mod just because the admin happen to like a particular person (what happened to me) or any other reason. I think he has every right to not post for a while if he doesn't want to without being emotionally blackmailed into coming back. He'll be on msn if people want to talk to him I'm sure.

[Aragil]

I've never really got to know you, but please come back Balin.

[X Rogue]

I don't think asking Balin to come back counts as emotional blackmail. It's an opinion. And sure, we can talk to him elsewhere, and probably will, just as he has every right to take a break.

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

i guess i'll see you on msn dude.

[Theodred]

I understand totally how it feels, it's not nice to be undermined as a mod just because the admin happen to like a particular person (what happened to me) or any other reason.

I didn't undermine him. I didn't even know it would make him mad.

[Barahir]

I don't have anything against Balin being a moderator, either.

[Theodred]

The opinion seems to be that we've been having a feud or problem or something. This all came about at once. Balin deleted some posts, and I didn't think they needed to be deleted, so I restored them.
I gave Balin credit for doing his job, but I said I didn't think the deletions were necessary, but somehow that upset him. Maybe because all of us turned down his suggestions for board improvement or something, but then again, lots of ideas get shot down in Meduseld. Anyway, Balin decided to leave, and it really wasn't necessary. We patched things up in msn right afterward, but he won't come back until we revoke his modship. I'm saying this because I don't want all of you to think that we heartless admins stripped him of his job. I don't think it's necessary, but that's what he wants.

Before taking away someone's mod powers, we think we should consult Bere. Unfortunately, Bere is on vacation. On msn, Balin agreed to wait until Bere returned to sort things out. The whole situation is basicly fine. Balin will be coming back soon enough. Neither Barahir or I are undermining his authority. It was just a little incident, and we'll all forget it and go back to being in good relations soon enough. I really don't appreciate the attacks portraying me as some dictator going against a man doing his job. It really isn't like that at all.

[Ditz]

I didn't undermine him. I didn't even know it would make him mad

You cancelled one of his mod decisions, based on the rules of the forums without consulting him. I know you didn't mean to undermine him, but you still did. If you're going to veto a mod's decision then you really need to at least consult them on it. It's ok, everyone does it. It happens everywhere, on every board I've been on. It's just not nice if you're the one being undermined.

[X Rogue]

I don't see you as being attacked, Theo. You have provided us with an explanation which is most helpful in understanding the situation, and I have encouraged Balin to stay on as a mod, also. I understand why things are going along as they are, but I also agree with Ditz, if I were in Balin's place, I'd be hurt. Hopefully all pans out well.

[Theodred]

Yes, you all say that, but it feels like it's being insinuated. Sure I didn't consult Balin on the decision, but afterward I posted a reply stating why I did what I did. Balin could have felt hurt, but I've done things that have been revoked by the other mods as well. This is not the first time there have been contradictory moderating and administration decisions. Whether it was just a bad train of events or not, it was not an important manner. Soon it will be resolved and we'll move on. Or perhaps I should just go ahead and take away Balin's modship so he can come back and everyone can feel happy again. Then when Bere comes back we can make a decision.

[Daughter of Mirkwood]

Let not rash decisions be made when angry. Bere will be back on the morrow, decide then. I hate seeing people i like angry and upset, both sides acted as they saw just, i dont think there should be any more arguing about it here, everyone will just upset each other.

[X Rogue]

I also think it can wait until Bere gets back, it's only one more day. Sure, there are often contradictory mod and admin decisions, happens all the time. Sheesh I just said I can understand both sides.

[Ditz]

I'm just sticking up for Balin's decision because I know what it's like, and I think he has the right to be as respected as any member of staff. My stance still stands firm, I think you guys made a bad decision and I do agree that the spam aronud here has started to get a little much (partly my fault I know) and from what I've seen it looks like Balin was just following the forum rules.

[Barahir]

The decision to restore a deleted post on the part of an administrator without the approval or consultation of a moderator is not a 'bad decision,' nor is it uncommon, nor is it any reason for serious upheaval. Things obviously become blown out of proportion easily, as the case may be.

There is no rule stating that one cannot make a post that includes 3,000 emoticons. However, if you would like to propose an amendment to the Official Board rules, you may do so here in Harrowdale. :)

Once again, I completely stand with Theodred's decision. I don't know if any of you were present for the actual happenings, but having made the initial 3,000 cheesecake post, seen its deletion, and seen its restoration, I can say that this is not a big deal. Sometimes moderators make decisions that administrators don't think are necessary, and hence put them back to how they were. Theodred explained the restoration in that thread, just as should be done.

As for any ideas being shot down in Meduseld that may have caused Balin irritation, I can also confidently say that this is common, as well. I can remember making many suggestions, as a moderator, myself. Few of them passed through Meduseld, and as I remember, none of them made it without an administrative veto. If that wasn't clear, then that is the fault of Rohan's administrative body. However, it is, once again, no cause for such an ordeal as this.

[Arathorn III]

Well, I am back...I guess we'll have to make a decision here....

[Ditz]

The decision to restore a deleted post on the part of an administrator without the approval or consultation of a moderator is not a 'bad decision,' nor is it uncommon, nor is it any reason for serious upheaval. Things obviously become blown out of proportion easily, as the case may be.

No, but it can count as undermining and being intensely rude if you don't even consult the moderator involved.

There is no rule stating that one cannot make a post that includes 3,000 emoticons.

No spamming and no fluffing. They're rules aren't they? 3,000 emoticons really jams up the speed of connecting, on most boards the settings are so that you can have no more than 10 or 20 emoticons per post because it really really meshes up the system for people with slow net connections. I don't think it's fair to not let certain people have the same experience of Rohan because you feel that 3,000 emoticons would be cool when 3 would do.

Theodred explained the restoration in that thread, just as should be done.

Ah, so as well as undermining Balin's authority, you made it public. Well done.

[Barahir]

Someone restoring a post does not have to consult the person who deleted the post originally, it's not undermining anything he does, it happens to more people than just Balin, and the very description of the Vortex of the Huorns explicitly includes "fluff" also including that it goes "to an extent". That extent is determined by a moderator or administrator. It would have been much more punctual for Balin to have consulted us before deleting the post in the first place. I guess Balin is undermining our authority.

[Ditz]

Someone restoring a post does not have to consult the person who deleted the post originally

No. But it's intensely rude. The staff should talk to one another. Trust me, I've worked at a lot of boards.

it's not undermining anything he does,

Yes it is. I said you didn't mean to do it, but you still are.

it happens to more people than just Balin

I never said it didn't and if it does maybe the staff system needs a shake up.

the very description of the Vortex of the Huorns explicitly includes "fluff"

There is a limit even there. Your and Balin's view of the limit may be different, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Perhaps you should discuss lines in the staffroom, and just how far things have to go.

That extent is determined by a moderator or administrator

Last time I looked Balin was a moderator. Or does he only count as a moderator when he makes a decision that you like?

It would have been much more punctual for Balin to have consulted us before deleting the post in the first place

True. If you have a problem with him deleting the posts then maybe you should have told him, and explained why.

I guess Balin is undermining our authority.

If you feel that way then you should talk to him about it.

Anyway, isn't it up to the admin to guide the moderators? Maybe if Balin made a wrong decision he's been guided wrong.

[Barahir]

No. But it's intensely rude. The staff should talk to one another. Trust me, I've worked at a lot of boards.
Let's be brutally honest here: this is a petty issue. It doesn't require one 'staff member' to converse with the other over policy.

Yes it is. I said you didn't mean to do it, but you still are.
No, it's not. I will say that you're free to believe what you will, but it simply won't get us anywhere. However, your statement doesn't have factual basis; to undermine, as I'm sure you're aware, means either to dig a tunnel or to weaken/impair. The fact that an administrator decided to restore a deleted post without first telling anyone does not take away from anyone else's power or authority. Balin is no less capable of doing his job now than he was before the post was restored.

I never said it didn't and if it does maybe the staff system needs a shake up.
Once again, it is not and should not be made into a big deal. Posts are deleted and restored all the time. It is completely preposterous to be of the midn that a change in staff is merited by this.

There is a limit even there. Your and Balin's view of the limit may be different, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Perhaps you should discuss lines in the staffroom, and just how far things have to go.
Actually, I will say that I can remember having discussed parameters of 'fluff' before, with the others, on more than one account. The inherent joy in and of the Vortex stems from its lack of restriction beyond the words "it goes to an extent." These can be interpreted as seen fit in the situation by whoever happens to be there at the time. However, if someone else decides otherwise, later, there's nothing wrong with that. If the first person has a problem, he can take it out with the other person via PM or an instant messenger, or in Meduseld.

Last time I looked Balin was a moderator. Or does he only count as a moderator when he makes a decision that you like?
No, no, that's not at all what I was saying. I said that the "extent is determined by a moderator or administrator". Balin sure as heck determined that extent, initially. I never said anything contrary. The decision, however, was re-determined by an administrator, later.

True. If you have a problem with him deleting the posts then maybe you should have told him, and explained why.
Theodred did tell him, and did, in fact, explain why he did it.

If you feel that way then you should talk to him about it.
I was joking. ;)

[Arathorn III]

Well, Balin, I didn't want to do it, but I have un-made you a mod, as per your request. Hopefully we can settle things down now. I'm sorry about the whole affair, but these things happen I guess. Let's just move on, shall we? :)

[Poguemahone]

It will take a while for my respect for Barahir and Theodred to climb back up to where it was, but I am back.

I would like to thanks Ditz though, for the only support it seems that I got while away.

[Barahir]

<Why are you involving me in this?>Good to have you back, though, Balin.

[Arathorn III]

Yes, good to see you back. :)

[Poguemahone]

I am amazed that people are happy that I am back, after creating a seperation at the board.

[X Rogue]

I am. And I still want you to be a mod, personally. Although Ditz is much better at defending people than I.

[Poguemahone]

You arent the only one that still wants me as a mod Rogue. It was fully my choice to get rid of the position. Bere knows the full details of my de-modship.

[X Rogue]

It's up to you to lay it down if you like, of course. I was just saying what I thought in public. Carry on, all.